Some suggestions...

Topics: Visions and Concepts
Developer
Jun 14, 2006 at 7:47 AM
Hi,

I was just searching for a tool like this one.

Also, I have some suggestions:
- It will be better to have a version writen in C# 2.0 with .NET 2.0. Why ?
Simply because most people do not want to install .NET 3 right now !!! Also C# 2.0
is really sufficient to do this soft !

- Take a look at Eclipse (.org), they have a very very good tool to manage source
control in a graphic way. Yes I know, it is Java, but it is a very good source
of inspiration

Regards

Chirs
Coordinator
Jun 14, 2006 at 9:14 PM
That's a good point about not wanting to do a production install of WinFx.

Most likely it will be under 2.0 but it might also be a good impetus to develop with the WinFx toolset. Purely for experimentation is the only reason WinFx might actually be considered at this point. But as you point out it does reduce the adoption for the time being.

Developer
Jun 15, 2006 at 5:17 AM
I'd also have to vote in favour of keeping it something we can install and use very easily. If possible, it'd be nice if the requirements were identical or less than that for the Team Explorer component of visual studio.

As a user I'm pretty flexible on it being an Add-In or standalone (or both?), but it would be very nice to have a right-click interface through the following places if it's in the IDE:
Solution Explorer
Changeset Viewer
Shelveset Viewer (including indication of where the versions were when the shelveset was shelved)
Source Control Explorer
Pending Changes Viewer
History Window
Anywhere else the menu at File~Source Control~* is context sensitive to
Coordinator
Jun 15, 2006 at 11:57 AM
I was speaking with Martin Woodward on this yesterday as well and he had a good idea that perhaps the DSL and its designers renderings might be good. That definately takes some more thought.

Also, when I woke up this morning I was thinking about the WinFx install issue and then it occured to me that if you plan to install and use any of the Office 2007 tools WinFx is a requirement there. So... just a thought that perhaps WinFx is not so off track in terms of an install requirement.

Then again having the same requirements as Team Explorer makes lots of sense.
Jun 15, 2006 at 7:40 PM
I think that WinFX requirement will greatly reduce adoption. VSTS is targeting first of all large scale, enterprise organizations. Most of them have "after SP1 only" policy. I can definitely understand passion to play around with new toys, believe me, I feel exactly the same, but in my opinion .NET 2.0 is better choice for now.
Coordinator
Jun 16, 2006 at 3:01 PM
Here is where I am beginning to lean.

We have so far limited feedback but hope for more as Rob Caron http://blogs.msdn.com/robcaron has just posted about this project on his blog and will no doubt significantly increase traffic to check it out.

We should focus on the first release with no use of WPF. Then as the next version begins development we can branch the UI represention and either have parallel development for WPF as a POC and Pilot while continuing the standard presentation layer, or if we have enough interest by people wanting to work in the .NET 3.0 space we can branch prior to the first release for parallel UI development in that world.

Developer
Jun 16, 2006 at 4:23 PM
I agree. We probably should not start with WPF (I can't believe I'm saying this) to gain an larger adoption pool.

If we architect this correctly, we should be able to plop any old UI on top of it (WPF, ASP.Net, Web Service, etc.). The key is to get a nice, stable middleware layer that is robust enough to service all of the planned (and unplanned) UIs.
Developer
Jun 16, 2006 at 5:56 PM
I think sstjean's (Steve?) right on this one - a good business layer and we're set for any UI people want to play with. Has anybody put out preliminary scenarios we'd like to target yet? (FYI - I'm coming from the MSF/CMMI perspective, so that's what my work item phrasing will initially be based on)
Coordinator
Jun 19, 2006 at 3:04 PM
I think we all agree on the UI separation is just good practice and thus we'll go from there. I have a few more folks to add to the developer role and will throwing out some tasks mostly in setting up the wiki pages to support the project.

Place to load docs other than Source Repository (so that non-source access folks can get to them). Those will come out later today.

Coordinator
Jun 19, 2006 at 3:24 PM
I have no problem with looking at Eclipse. As you'll see in a post I'll load in a little bit I just spent an hour with a client going over how they use UCM and BaseCase from Rational.

I certainly will install eclipse on Virtual Machine and try it out... or better yet. If you were to provide a document with some screen shots of Eclipse and how it uses a version tree browser. This could be a document of your own making or one you can find out there.

I'm working on a document repository right now that will be separate from Version Control so non-developers can access.
Coordinator
Jun 19, 2006 at 3:47 PM
I just posted in the other post a screenshot from eclipse´s graphical plugin for version trees.

Hope it helps,
Bernardo Heynemann
Jun 20, 2006 at 1:40 PM
Please take a loot at this simple tool called Tortoise CVS its integrated with explorer and it has a cool way to wath versions, it supports any kind of document.

Coordinator
Jun 21, 2006 at 2:55 PM
Yes. I am familiar with the Tortoise product. I had only looked at an older version but just looked at the newest version. I think that is very much in line with what we are after for a start... whatd others think?
Jun 22, 2006 at 1:05 AM
I am a little curious as to our purpose - my initial impression of the project that we were looking to provide additional views of the source code ala the CVS plugins to Eclipse that have been highlighted. The recent forum posts have focused on building a middle layer so that any UI could plug in. Now I understand and recognize the need to separate presentation from logic, but it seems like our project purpose is to provide more interesting representations of the Source Code tree so inherently a user interface would be a key deliverable. I think it would be interesting to explore using DSL and the built-in designers as a presentation medium.

As a side note - not sure if this is in scope or not, but a tortoise like capability for TFS where you can do SCM operations from within Windows Explorer would be a nice addition as well. I think I saw a project on SourceForge at one point, but it didn't look like it was going anywhere.
Jun 22, 2006 at 1:08 AM
Hi you could consider using something like 'Lithium' to display your version tree. In this example 'http://www.codeproject.com/cs/miscctrl/TreeDiagrams.asp' a simple tree display can be driven from an XML document. Source is provided and I am sure that if this did not meet the visual needs you could modify the provided source to push the 'Netron Graph Library' which i believe this to be an extension of to do what you want, just be sure to credit the appropriate people for their work (thanks Francois).

I have used a similar technique in HTML to display XML trees as an organisation chart.