So what now?

Topics: Developer Forum
Developer
Jul 18, 2006 at 9:50 AM
Morning all.

So I have just had a quick play with the controls again, basically created a user control in the Controls project and a form in the vtree just to see how it works more clearly (with the permissions on the mindfusion dlls).

So I was just wondering, this project has gone very quite, and I was wondering what the next step is.

Do we need to start thinking about creating test cases and some high level designs?


btw. I haven't got Visual Studio Team Developer, only Professional :( and I don't think I am going to get it either....

Ben
Coordinator
Jul 18, 2006 at 1:41 PM
That´s the main reason that I think we shouldn´t use VSTS Testing Services. As this is a Community project we should use something that everyone can use to unit test our product.
I really like, when I download source for an open project, to run all unit tests.
You can get almost all the functionality of VSTS Testing with NUNIT 2.2.8 + TestDriven.net.

That´s the way to go in my opinion.

Bernardo Heynemann
Coordinator
Jul 18, 2006 at 1:45 PM
BTW,
Bad Bad MS!!!
Unit testing should come with even THE most basic version of VS.
I know what people are going to say:
"But it does, only with less features, yada yada yada (thank Seinfeld for that hehehe)"
But it should come in full featured version in every single version.
Take this scenario:

I have a VS Team Ed for Architects (the only version with all the Testing features), but I don´t want to buy this expensive version for all my devs. Nevertheless I want all of them to arrange the unit tests in categories and test them before the code reaches me, so I get less flaws to debug (my hourly wage is more expensive then theirs!).
And the way MS did it I don´t get this scenario.

BAD BAD MS!
So I´ll probably stick with NUnit for the time being, unless for a few exceptions (like database testing or profiling for instance).
Bernardo Heynemann
Developer
Jul 18, 2006 at 3:10 PM
Yes, bad bad MS, but for now, I agree that NUnit + NCover + TestDriven.NET + NCoverExplorer (+ NDepend) is the way for us to go :)

I love it when my tools are free and play nicely together.
Coordinator
Jul 19, 2006 at 9:34 AM
Sounds like there is a concensus. I'd just as well use the tools in the team system editions but understand where everyone is coming from. So... We'll run with the list. Eric would you like to drop the info and links under the SCM policies section?
Coordinator
Jul 19, 2006 at 9:37 AM
This discussion has been copied to Work Item 1065. You may wish to continue further discussion there.
Coordinator
Jul 19, 2006 at 10:01 AM
I'd like to propose MBUnit instead of Nunit. It works with NCover (may be a few little issues but if so then we'll contribute to the NCover code) and works with TestDriven.NET.
Developer
Aug 3, 2006 at 3:01 AM
What are the essential differences between NUnit and MBUnit? I remember reading a lot during the initial development of MB, but I never really grasped the differences.
Coordinator
Aug 3, 2006 at 4:31 AM
The major diffs are supposed to be the extensibility and the use of combinatorial testing. For instance, there can be an enumeration test fixture. It's a test fixture that tests the enumerable function of an object. Also you can embed data into the test kind of like FIT so that the fixture can run maultiple times using various inputs and ensure it gets the expected outputs, or run the test concurrently in multiple threads etc. And you can create your own custom test fixtures.

www.mbunit.org
Developer
Aug 3, 2006 at 10:50 AM
I must say I disagree. This project is about a product that intergrates with TFS to use TFS you must have a CAL. A CAL can be obtained by either shellin out $ for a CAL or you have the option of one of 4 product suites which represent on CAL each.

-Visual Studio Team Architect
-Visual Studio Team Developer
-Visual Studio Team Tester
-Visual Studio Team Suite (All of the above)

The Developer and Tester suite can develop unit tests. The architect version is only about Visually designing service-oriented applications. Obviously MS has some special arrangement in place for CodePlex or assumes everyone accessing it has a CAL.

Since it is assumed to create this product we will need to access a TFS server, you should have a CAL. Therefore it is likely you would have one of the above products to obtain the nessesary CAL, most likely Developer (I have the full suite). This would make it reasonable to write the testes in the built in testing tools rather than a third party tool.
Developer
Aug 3, 2006 at 5:57 PM
Personally, I am using Team Explorer just to connect to CodePlex (have used the 180 trail at work when I was demo'ing it to managers) and so I do not require a CAL to access it

See:
http://blogs.msdn.com/robcaron/archive/2006/05/23/605555.aspx

So, personally I do not have VS Team Suite (or Dev Edition) installed on my machine, just Professional which I got from my Universities MSDNAA.

Other people on this site are also in my situation, and so limiting our testing abilities isn't a good idea (IMHO), and I think MBUnit is the way to go...

But I think a decision needs to be finalised, and the existing tests ported ASAP.
Developer
Aug 4, 2006 at 5:05 AM
Quite correct, and as I said there may have been a special case made for CodePlex around the CAL’s for TFS. But as Rob states in your reference “If you don’t have a Team Foundation Server CAL, you can only use Team Explorer to access CodePlex’, this software will access TFS, is not TE so therefore you will need a CAL to use this software even though it is an open source project.

I am not across the agreement of the 180 trial, this may give you a 180 day trial CAL on a TFS server.
Coordinator
Aug 6, 2006 at 3:14 PM
Jason brings up a good point about licensing. As most know I definately leaned toward testing in the Microsoft testing tools because this after all this is a TFS project. Ultimately the decision was open source test tools to provide the widest audience of participation but unlike many other project you must have your own CAL for access to TFS in order to truly work on this project since the code product itself connects to TFS.

There are exceptions, such as perhaps you have an MSDN subscription and in turn have a CAL to a workgroup edition to test against locally on the software. Or you have professional with a seperate CAL purchased. Those former exception is null since we build our test against a known testing repository that exists on CodePlex itself. Granted, you could place that on your local server. You get the idea. Despite the fact that there are all sorts of allowable combinations and that licensing is ultimately your personal responsibility not the responsibility of the community project I would like to minimize the copmplexity of the development and testing environment as much as possible.

With the idea that this is a TFS based product that really requires a full TFS CAL to be used for development or testing I see no reason not to make the logical decision of reducing the development environment complexity.

In short, let's revert to the path of the built in MS Tests that are part of the Team Editons. If you do not have access to Visual Studio Team System Dev Edition or Suite and have already utilized all of the time period on a trial edition and you are contributing to the project then let me know individually and directly.